The head of Justice is certainly the busiest minister in the new Polish liberal government, led by Donald Tusk. He is also one of the most respected. In the almost six months that he has been in office, the independent Adam Bodnar (Trzebiatów, 47 years old) has managed to unlock the 59.8 billion euros of the recovery fund that the European Commission had suspended to Poland due to the drift of the Executive’s rule of law above, from the ultra-conservatives of PiS. This same week, Brussels has definitively closed the procedure for threatening the rule of law against Poland, which could mean the loss of the right to vote in the Council.
These are two great victories achieved without any legislative reform. In the task of restoring the rule of law, Bodnar faces President Andrzej Duda – a member of PiS until he took office – who has the right to veto new regulations. He is also against the Constitutional Court, a questioned body that the Polish Executive ignores. The minister, a renowned jurist who served as Ombudsman, also faces multiple dilemmas, such as the reform of the judiciary or how to guarantee the independence of the Constitutional Court in the long term. Bodnar speaks with Morning Express by videoconference this Wednesday.
Ask. His Government openly ignores the rulings of the Constitutional Court. Are you worried about the image you project?
Answer. We have a very difficult and dramatic situation with the Constitutional Court. There are three people sitting on the Court who are not judges and who were improperly elected and there is a problem with the leadership. Mrs. Julia Przylebska [presidenta] His term has already ended, but she does not agree. Therefore, the Polish Parliament has adopted a resolution saying that we do not have a Constitutional Court as a body that carries out a proper judicial review. The Constitutional Court issues daily sentences that are a pure exploitation of the court for political purposes, without any hesitation. On the basis of this Parliament resolution we tend to ignore its decisions. Political parties must agree to carry out a constitutional reform and reestablish an independent court, with a high level of public legitimacy.
Q. Do you have hope of reaching agreements with PiS for this constitutional formatting?
R.This moment of transition we are in occurs with elections underway. First we had local elections, now we have elections to the European Parliament. There is still a very divisive political environment, with a lot of polarization and daily confrontations. But I hope that, sooner or later, we will reach an agreement and see that, for the good of the country, we must look forward and look for possibilities for that constitutional restoration.
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Q. What are the main challenges to restoring the rule of law in Poland?
R. One of the challenges is political-institutional, because we are trying to restore the rule of law without having a constitutional majority. [en el Parlamento] to overturn the president’s veto. We have to do legislative work with no guarantee of success and, basically, with some laws we will have to wait until mid-2025, with a new president more favorable to some changes in the judiciary. We use non-legislative methods, but we have limited possibilities to do things comprehensively. There is a second problem, which is the people in the judicial system with little interest in the reforms, because they benefited from the previous system. And we also have the challenge of accountability, because what happened in Poland was not only the construction of an illiberal system, but there were many financial abuses to increase the capacities of some political parties.
Q. Brussels has closed the procedure due to threats to the rule of law and has unblocked the suspended funds to Poland based on promises and non-legislative reforms, while laws were demanded from PiS. Do you understand the criticism about the European Commission’s double standards?
R. It is very easy to put it all in one sentence, but the situation is much more complex. To unlock the recovery fund, simple requirements had to be met: ensure that European money will not be at risk and that judges will not be subjected to pressure and disciplinary procedures for applying European legislation. I spent more than two months convincing the Commission that Polish judges are no longer subject to such procedures and that the money is safe because we have joined the European Public Prosecutor’s Office. Regarding Article 7, this procedure is based on the existence of a clear risk of deterioration to the rule of law and the Commission has said that there is no longer a risk. Because? Because I presented a legislative action plan, supported by intense activity with laws already presented such as that of the National Council of the Judiciary or that of the Constitutional Court. The presentation of this plan is a firm promise from the Polish Government that has been accompanied by other actions, evaluated politically. The Commission’s vision has received the support of 26 Member States.
Q.Some early decisions of the Government, such as the takeover of public television by the Ministry of Culture, were dubious from a legal point of view.
R. In my opinion, these decisions had a legal basis in the commercial code. The important thing for us is how the public media works now, with independent journalists. Poles appreciate that they have stopped being a source of hatred and propaganda. Now, in the electoral campaign, there are no differences with the private media. They can present things as they are, without interference from the Government. That was the goal of the changes.
Q. Apart from the ongoing parliamentary commissions of inquiry, will you as Attorney General bring PiS politicians to justice?
R.I try not to interfere in individual cases, but rather show the direction that the Prosecutor’s Office should follow. But we have some cases. Yesterday [por el martes] I tabled a motion to lift the immunity of a former Undersecretary of State at the Ministry of Justice, current Member of Parliament, Mr. Michal Wos, over a major scandal over the use of money from the Justice Fund [creado para ayudar a víctimas de crímenes] to buy the Pegasus spy program. There are more people who could be subject to immunity withdrawal procedures. But any accountability process will be done in accordance with the rule of law.
Q.As a former Ombudsman and human rights activist, are you concerned that pushbacks continue to occur on the border with Belarus and that members of your Government question the Geneva Convention?
Q.No. I stick to my new role, which is to be Minister of Justice. It is not my role to comment on anything that concerns the Ministry of the Interior. What was happening on the border in 2021, and what is happening right now in the context of the war in Ukraine, and the hybrid attack commissioned by Russia, is completely different. You just have to look at what happened just two days ago. A border guard has been injured and is now in the hospital fighting for his life.
Q. The most conservative partners in the coalition are endangering reforms such as abortion and same-sex marriage. Do you think this Government will meet the demands of civil society?
R.I am pretty sure. We are in the process of elections, which are also quite divisive. We’ll return to some of those issues later. But we have only been in government for five months and two weeks.
Q.There is a Spanish journalist, Pablo González, in provisional prison in Poland for more than two years, accused of espionage for Russia. In Spain it is difficult to understand that in a European country he is imprisoned for so long without charges. Do you know the case?
R.I know him and it is quite difficult for me to comment, but what is certain is that the treatment and protection of his rights, while he is in custody, meets the standards. One of my reforms has to do with limiting preventive detention, because this is not an isolated case.
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