It is rare to find someone who has touched the pinnacle of power and confesses his weaknesses, his traumas, his fears, the emotional wounds that life at the top leaves behind. Marcos Peña (Buenos Aires, 47 years old), former head of the Argentine government under the presidency of Mauricio Macri, has told about it in a book, The art of climbing (and descending) the mountain(21st Century).
AskDoes power dehumanize?
AnswerYes, it dehumanizes because of the disconnection from oneself and from others, excessively and for too long. That is why the metaphor of the high mountains: they are places where one is not made to stay for a long time, one has to enter and leave. When one wants to stay there, the risk of dehumanization is much greater.
PThe pressure, the demands, the speed of response that is required today… Is there something inhumane there?
R. I like to talk more about people in leadership positions than about leaders. When this situation becomes extreme, it generates chronic stress that has a very high emotional cost and a high impact on the ability to connect with others.
P. And at the same time it is addictive.
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R. Yes, fame, money, power… They are compensatory mechanisms.
P. Adrenalin?
RAdrenaline, dopamine… They are drugs that are deep within our brain, necessary for survival, but they have to be balanced by a care system, compassion, bonds, and affection, so that they do not get out of control.
PWhen he was starting out, he told a journalist: “I don’t let politics eat up my life.” And it did.
R. It is the risk of complacency, of underestimating the challenge, of going to the high mountains in sneakers and a T-shirt without adequate preparation. It is a very high demand that is equivalent to trauma. And that is why it must be processed afterwards.
P. When did you realize you had to stop?
R. Seven months before my term ended, in a conversation with my wife, Luciana, I could see graphically that I was at a crossroads: either my family would explode and the alienation would become structural, or I would distance myself. And that’s when I said: “This is what I do, not who I am. At the end of my term, I’m retiring.” I don’t know if it was a gift from life or an act of lucidity.
PDo all leaders carry trauma?
R. Extreme leadership – in business, politics, sports, the arts – often arises from a need to fill a very strong void. The stronger that need, the more leadership capacity one has. And that disconnection feeds back, generating more of that addictive thing.
P. Although it may not seem like it from the outside, you emphasize that one suffers a lot from criticism.
R. He smartphone It has radically changed the leadership experience. Artists and athletes were the first to talk about mental health in relation to fame and success. Politics still whispers about it. The Apolitical Foundation, a German NGO, recently published a report on the mental well-being of politicians. It is one of the systemic risks for democracy today. The level of aggression, of exposure, of demand… There are many people who are starting to say: “I don’t know if I want to get involved in this.” It is urgent to talk about it, for the well-being of democracy, not just for that of politicians.
P. Recommends disconnecting from social networks. The level of aggression there is enormous.
R. But the worst thing is the demand, constantly feeling like you have to answer something. It doesn’t allow you time to concentrate, to rest, to have meetings… And it affects your cognitive ability and decision-making.
PThere is no room for reflection.
R. That’s why, rather than a linear, long-term career, you have to think of a mountain logic of ascent and descent. After a while, take a step back, get away from the character, regain strength, process… It’s healthier than what I’ve seen in many leaders who are 30, 40 years old and no longer remember what training or reflection, or even enjoyment, was like. And this also impressed me a lot when working with businessmen.
P. Public opinion does not accept politicians showing their vulnerabilities.
R. I have my doubts about whether there isn’t a generational change in that sense. We also have to differentiate between authenticity, aligning what you are, what you say and what you do. If someone is a tough guy who suddenly breaks down crying because he says “I can’t do my job anymore”… In that case, what is punished is inconsistency. It was very interesting what happened with Gabriel Boric, the president of Chile, when he raised his mental health situation in the campaign, with an obsessive-compulsive disorder. And the voters did not punish him for that. We also have to rethink the role of the citizen. To the extent that he plays the victim, the spectator, who wants someone else to solve all his problems, frustration will always be very great. That image of the leader who is in a statue, who is going to lead us, does not resist the historical archives as much.
P. That is why he prefers to talk about people in leadership positions rather than leaders.
R. The statue that lives in our cities is somewhat misleading. If one looks at the great leaders of the 20th century, they have been men with depression, with addictions, and hiding that does not make them better leaders, it makes them less human. And that is why I like to think of leadership as a verb, not as a subject, as something defined.
P. He says that one creates a character as a defense mechanism. And in the end the character eats you up.
R. For me it was a gift of life to go through that political deathIt was painful, it was difficult, it makes me angry, it makes me contradict myself, even though I had thought about it myself. But it is what allows you to integrate it from another place. I learned a lot about that from the retirement of athletes, which many considered a death in life. It happened to me, on December 10, 2019, we left power in the morning and in the afternoon I was just another citizen, walking through Palermo, in Buenos Aires, and having made the decision to take off my suit. You feel a little naked in the street, because that suit was a protection mechanism, but I think it is super necessary to grow.
P. And yet you still don’t regret it?
R. No, for me politics has been an extraordinary experience and it remains an essential function. There is no democracy without politicians and there is no freedom without democracy. So, it is urgent that we deal with that. But I do it out of love for the task. It really was a wonderful experience. I am grateful to have been able to go through it.
PHe rejects “personalist and messianic” leadership, the “superhero,” he says. A very appropriate definition for Javier Milei, who even dresses up as a superhero.
R.He has a degree of authenticity and a very consistent connection between who he set out to be, who won, and who he is. You may like it or not, but it is a bit strange that once he wins he becomes a formal politician… People voted for him that way and that has value. The problem often has to do with his rivals, who were not able to connect. And there is a very big warning there in several countries: putting all the focus on the disruptive makes us lose sight of the fact that the central problem is with the non-disruptive. Because there is a rejection of the rest, of the professional politician.
PAre you still among the non-disruptive ones?
RYes, yes… Disruptive leaderships can play a disruptive role, but not a constructive one. A democratic society is made with more group-based, more collective leaderships, more capable of having a voice.
