Cem Özdemir (Bad Urach, Baden-Württemberg, 58 years old) is a particularly interesting figure on the German political scene. Not only because he is the first German of Turkish origin to achieve the position of minister, something unimaginable in the country to which his parents arrived as immigrants in the sixties. It is part of a party, The Greens, that has evolved from its founding pacifism to support for NATO intervention in Kosovo during its first time in government, with Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, and now, under a three-party coalition with social democrats. and liberals, to lead the tough policy against Russia for its invasion of Ukraine. Heading the Ministry of Agriculture and Food also makes him one of the favorite targets of the fury of the peasants that has roamed the streets of half of Europe.
Özdemir’s schedule is very demanding. After answering questions from Morning Express, on April 12 in Berlin, he will leave in a hurry—on an electric bicycle, without a trace of bodyguards—to a vote in the Bundestag, the lower house of Parliament. He admits the very complicated moment that Germany is going through, victim of weak economic growth, with the unpopularity of the Government at record levels and the rise – also at record levels – of populist forces. Faced with this atmosphere of disenchantment, Özdemir responds with some verses from the poet Hölderin: “Where there is danger, there is also salvation.” “I remember this phrase when I listen to the news in the morning, when I shave. And I think that where there is darkness, there is also light. There is also good news. Consider Donald Tusk’s victory in Poland. Perhaps we have learned something from events like Brexit or Trump’s last election. The answer is not less Europe, but more Europe.”
Ask. The polls are very negative for the three parties that govern Germany. Is there time to correct course before the 2025 elections?
Answer. If the Government loses and the democratic opposition wins, I would say it is a bummer, but everything would be in the hands of the Democrats. Unfortunately, those that are gaining strength are the most radical sectors. The one who benefits the most is the far-right – partly fascist – Alternative for Germany (AfD), which could become the most voted party in some regional elections. Furthermore, with the new formation of [la exdirigente de Die Linke] Sahra Wagenknecht, there is now a populist and nationalist left-wing party that, like the AfD, spreads propaganda in favor of [Vladímir] Putin and fuels anti-European resentment.
The Sword of Damocles of the Budget hangs above us: the conflict between saving and investing
Q. What has the tripartite done wrong these last two years? Too many fights between partners?
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R. The coalition must modify its style of cooperation and highlight achievements. We have achieved many things after so many years of stagnation under the leadership of the Christian Democrats. Even so, it is not good for citizens to have the feeling that we are more focused on ourselves than on solving problems. A coalition is not a love match, but I do hope we maintain a reasonable deal. And this means admitting the successes of others. Above us hangs the sword of Damocles of the Budget: the conflict between saving and investing. All this occurs against a very tense economic situation and a great fragility of politics on an international scale as a backdrop.
Q. If the AfD wins the elections in three eastern states in September, is the isolation of the traditional forces of this ultra party in danger?
R. The cordon sanitaire still exists at the federal and state levels, but it is cracking in some places at the municipal level. On that level there are agreements and cooperation with AfD. I find it very problematic, because they are right-wing extremists who call themselves patriots, but who are not loyal to the Constitution, but to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, who sees freedom and democracy in Europe as a threat. I appeal to Democrats not to allow the AfD to become normalized and the cordon sanitaire to weaken.
It is not good for citizens to have the feeling that we are more focused on ourselves than on solving problems
Q. Do you see the moment to normalize the AfD as close?
R. To the members of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) who flirt with this idea, I recommend that you take a look at Italy: the great objective of the far-right forces is to marginalize the center-right. The Christian Democrats in favor of collaborating with the AfD weaken themselves and strengthen extremism.
Q. Immigration once again appears as a central issue.
R. All democratic forces must take seriously that part of the population is concerned about internal and social security, or that has the impression that the State has no control over migration. We must not only know who enters the country. We must also clearly differentiate between regular and irregular immigration, and we must find answers to the exhaustion of many citizens. In that sense, we have to improve, which means recognizing uncomfortable truths even for my party. And I say this precisely as a person of immigrant origin.
Q. Farmer protests sweep through Germany. It is not just about the cut in subsidies, but about a deeper feeling of unease that affects all of Europe. How does your government respond?
R. There are a host of reasons. In Germany, the austerity plan was the last straw. But the reasons behind the protests and frustration go deeper. For decades, European agricultural policy has been governed by the motto of “grow or disappear.” As a result, many farms have closed. Added to this is the understandable desire for greater security and less bureaucracy. Nobody wants to be a farmer to end up sitting at a desk.
Q. Climate policy will be a central issue in the European elections in June. The German law that required heating renovations received harsh criticism and galvanized populist forces. What would you say to those who think that climate policies have gone too far and that citizens’ concerns are not taken into account?
R. It is a fact that the climate is changing and biodiversity is decreasing. It is clear that we must reduce the high use of pesticides, and that this requires a European solution. The European Commission’s proposal on this issue was unbalanced and poorly prepared. It was just what those who argue against any type of climate and environmental protection were waiting for. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The result of this excess of ambition is that there is no longer any ambition.
Q. Do you fear the instrumentalization of the protests by groups on the right?
R. Yes, there have been attempts. Still, most protests in Germany have been peaceful and democratic. Some opportunists who have no interest in our democracy clearly overstepped the boundaries of legitimate protest for their own interests. They were conspiracists, right-wing extremists and Putin followers, as well as people who became radicalized during the Covid pandemic. I am glad that the farmers’ association has stopped any attempt at appropriation.
Q. The Greens support sending weapons to Ukraine and Israel. Has your party definitively abandoned the pacifism of its beginnings?
R. The peace movement is one of our roots, but so are human rights. Our lesson learned from National Socialism is that war must never be repeated. And that fascism must never return. The liberation of Auschwitz did not occur because of a protest, but because of the actions of Soviet soldiers. The war ended because American, British, French and Soviet soldiers fought against Nazi fascism. It follows that we should not look the other way when serious injustices occur. And my party has followed this path very consistently, especially since the Kosovo war.
Q. He talks about those lessons learned from history, but many people think that what is happening in Gaza looks a lot like a genocide.
R. Israel’s right to exist is non-negotiable. In Germany, this is a reason of state. That does not mean that we are followers of Netanyahu and his government, in which there are people who defend racist ideas. Despite this, one cannot talk about Gaza without mentioning October 7 and the hostages. One cannot talk about the liberation of Gaza without mentioning that it must be liberated, first and foremost, from Hamas. And peace cannot be achieved without making clear that just as the Palestinians have the right to an independent state, Israel has the right to a state with secure borders. Still, as a friend of Israel, I must say that the excessive violence in the Strip generates more Hamas fighters than Israel is capable of killing. It is part of Hamas’ strategy to provoke Israel so that the situation in Gaza worsens. I have always been convinced that the path to greater security for Israel requires a two-state solution. However, that solution seems very far away now.
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