The Polish Foreign Minister, Radoslaw Sikorski (Bydgoszcz, 62 years old), warns about the threat that Russia poses to Western democracies when Europe is facing crucial elections. “[El presidente ruso, Vladímir] “Putin has been at war with us since 2011,” he vehemently stated in an interview with several media outlets of the LENA alliance, including Morning Express, held last Friday in Warsaw. Sikorski warns of the dangers of Russian interference in the European elections and recalls that ultra parties, such as the Polish Law and Justice (PiS), are ideologically influenced by Putinism.
The head of Polish diplomacy – who already held that position between 2007 and 2014 with Donald Tusk as prime minister, after being head of Defense with a more moderate version of PiS – defends a tough stance on immigration. “There is no human right to live where one pleases,” he declares.
Ask. Do you see Russian interference in the European elections?
Answer. Of course. They will do what bothers us, what unbalances us, what persuades our population that democracy does not work. Showing distrust and chaos is their business model.
Q. And in Poland?
R. The Russians transferred money to the Catalan separatists. It is a known matter. A Polish judge has recently fled to Belarus. We believe it is a Russian operation. The Russians have sent death squads to Germany, to the United Kingdom. They have painted stars of David in Paris. They do it everywhere and also in Poland. We must inoculate our political system, our institutions and our citizens against Russian manipulation. Putin has been at war with us since 2011. We have to recognize that there is a challenge and face it.
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Q. Why 2011?
R. Because he decided, wrongly, that the protests of the Russian people in St. Petersburg and Moscow against his return to the Kremlin were a Western coup.
Q. The Polish Government has announced a commission to investigate Russian influence, reminiscent of the one that PiS wanted to create before the legislative elections. Do you think PiS has been under this influence?
R. There is a fundamental difference. The anti-constitutional PiS commission would have had the right to exclude people from politics. Ideologically, of course there has been influence. If you read their propaganda… against gay rights, anti-European, with this kind of cult of the Polish version of machismo, the misuse of public media, and the union between the party and the church. These are all characteristics of Putinism. They say they hate Putin, but they are similar. Deceived by the use of traditionalism as a weapon, in all countries there is at least a third of the population prone to authoritarianism. The Russians realized this and have focused on that sector of the population.
Q. After the expulsion of the German ultras of the AfD from the Identity and Democracy (ID) group of the European Parliament, Marine Le Pen is making closer moves to the Conservatives and Reformists (ECR), where Giorgia Meloni is. The Italian prime minister is being ambivalent.
R. Do you mean it’s a policy? Oh [ríe]. We are pleased that Prime Minister Meloni has shown herself to be sensible about Ukraine.
Q. What about a possible alliance between the European People’s Party (EPP) and ECR?
R. Parts of ECR used to be in the PPE, if memory serves. PiS too. But it was a different PiS. In their 2007 manifesto, they even understood that strong European institutions were good for smaller countries. Now they just talk like [el impulsor del Brexit Nigel] Farage on the EU. Almost everything is insults.
Q. Russia has begun nuclear military exercises. How worried should Poland and Europe be about these drills?
R. For us it doesn’t change anything because it could already attack us. This is the last card Putin has. But the Russian military is not equipped to fight on the ground in a contaminated environment. The use of nuclear weapons has all kinds of complications. We must not fall into self-deterrence in the face of this threat.
Q. There have been several arrests for Russian espionage and sabotage in Poland. Now, the Government warns of cyber attacks. And there is also the hybrid attack on the Belarusian border. Is Poland prepared to counter such attacks?
R. We are going to physically reinforce our border. Not only against illegal immigration, but also against military threats. But I would like our Western colleagues to understand that this is not a migration of poor people who want a better life. It is an organized assault against the EU. These are people who were recruited, encouraged in Ethiopia and elsewhere, to go to Moscow through the Middle East. They are then sent to Belarus and then encouraged to cross the border.
Q. This is how migration also works in Africa. People go from one country to another.
R. In North Africa it is not organized by a nation state. Our UN member neighbor is mounting an assault aimed at destroying the European Union through the political process. They think – correctly, in my opinion – that if we cannot protect and control the external border, the far right will win in our countries and in the European elections. And that will destroy the EU. This is the plan.
Q. So wouldn’t the Geneva Convention apply to those migrants?
R. The Geneva Convention was intended to apply to individuals. Numbers matter. It was never intended to apply to millions of people. There are a billion people on the other side of the Mediterranean who would rather live here than there.
Q. It is an individual right.
R. No, there is no individual right to live wherever you please in the world. If we have passports or visas, it means that borders must be maintained. And our citizens demand that the external border of the Schengen area be controlled. If left unchecked, it will collapse. And we will no longer have freedom of movement. We are committed to doing our bit on the Polish part of the EU border.
Q. Even at the risk of clashing with human rights laws?
R. There is no human right to live where one pleases. There is no human right to cross the border illegally.
Q. But there is the right to be examined as an asylum seeker.
R. Yes of course. And that is why we now have the new immigration pact, which provides for reception centers where applications will be processed quickly and those people who have no hope of receiving asylum or the right to reside will be returned to their countries.
Q. Tusk voted against the immigration pact. Will they apply it?
R. We are still examining how it will affect Poland. We receive the largest number of refugees and people displaced by the war (from Ukraine). We can distinguish between genuine war refugees, Ukrainian women and children, and people brought to our border by the GRU [servicios de inteligencia militar] of Putin.
Q. Would you send troops to Ukraine?
R. We should not close our options. We must keep Putin wondering what we will do.
Q. The EU has shown unity regarding Ukraine. Why is this unity against the crimes being investigated in Gaza so difficult?
R. First of all, the current round of violence, as you know, was started by Hamas. It’s a very divisive topic, because there is a story. Poland, for example, has been recognizing Palestine as a state since 1988. I believe that there is consensus in the EU on the need for a two-state solution.
Q. They are in favor of that solution, but you question the decision of the Prosecutor’s Office of the International Criminal Court on the arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu by stating that it equates him with the leaders of Hamas.
R. It is of little use to announce decisions against a terrorist and a sitting prime minister of a democratic country simultaneously. We support the International Criminal Court, but this announcement on the same day was a political mistake.
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