Paulo Rangel, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Portugal: “It would be very unfair to say that Israel intends to eliminate the Palestinian people”

Paulo Rangel (Vila Nova de Gaia, 56 years old), a trained jurist, vice president of the Social Democratic Party (PSD, center-right) and new Minister of Foreign Affairs, is a furious pro-European, with 15 years of experience in the Strasbourg Parliament. This Tuesday he meets with his counterpart, José Manuel Albares, a few days before Spain recognizes the Palestinian State. Although it is aligned with its neighbor’s vision, Portugal prefers to wait for a greater consensus to take the same step. Rangel refuses to call what is happening in Gaza genocide, but demands an immediate ceasefire from Israel.

Ask. Spain and other countries will recognize Palestine as a State in the coming days. Could Portugal join?

Answer. We have a position very close to that of Spain and Ireland, although it is not exactly the same. There is a time difference. We have consultations with other Member States to see what is the most opportune moment to take the step. There is a great European consensus on the question of the two states. Portugal has taken steps to try to rally reluctant countries in favor of the vote on Palestine in the General Assembly.

Q. And what is necessary for that moment to be considered opportune?

R. Our concern is not to create a dividing line in the European Union, a fracture that radicalizes positions. Portugal is in a constructive position. Together with Spain, we have long called for an immediate ceasefire and the release of the hostages. We are facing a humanitarian catastrophe, a situation of urgency and emergency for the Palestinian people of Gaza, the vast majority of whom are innocent.

Q. In addition to a humanitarian catastrophe, do you think it is a genocide?

R. Genocide presupposes the will to eliminate a people. It would be very unfair to say that Israel intends to eliminate the Palestinian people. But there is a humanitarian catastrophe that demands condemnation, that requires Israel to accept an immediate ceasefire, and that needs to be repaired as soon as possible. We have told this to the Israeli Government and its ambassador in Lisbon.

Q. Should the international community impose punitive measures on Israel?

R. We must put great pressure on the Government. It is not Israel as a state nor the Israeli people that are in question. Portugal understands that the Israeli State is facing an existential threat. This should not be hidden either, but one thing does not eliminate the other. And that is why we are in favor of the two-state solution, both have the right to exist. The pressure has clearly increased. The United States has played a very important role in that sense. We have to continue exercising all our diplomatic action and even some political pressure on the Government of Israel to at least achieve a ceasefire.

Q. The war in Gaza has to some extent displaced that in Ukraine. Which has more destabilizing potential for the EU?

R. Both are terrible and I don’t even think that Ukraine has lost prominence. Both remain open wounds at the doors of the European Union. The conflict created by the Russian invasion is a problem that the EU has to solve because it is the European way of life, the rule of law, liberal democracy and the market economy that is at issue. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has a more structural aspect, while the invasion of Ukraine is an acute crisis. For Europe, both are very negative because they are on the Eastern borders, one to the north and one to the south. And we have a third front, closer to the Iberian Peninsula, which is the Sahel, which should concern us on the southern flank.

Q.You have been an MEP for 15 years and have known a different climate of relations with Russia. Has Russia been naive?

R. I always considered that we had created an excessive and somewhat naive economic dependence, especially energy, on Russia. Economics alone does not solve problems. Religion, politics, history and today the environment are very decisive factors in creating a space of peace. There was naivety and some error. Because if Europe is focused on the ecological transition, dependence on Russian fossil fuels was not only geopolitically dangerous, but also contrary to the designs of combating climate change. This is not the case of Portugal and Spain, which have invested heavily in renewables.

Q.Is the EU paying for a German mistake?

R. In Germany there were two linked decisions that had a cost. One was to desist from nuclear energy, which was an old struggle after the Cold War. After the Fukushima nuclear accident, the change in Germany’s energy policy increased even more that dependence on Russia, which was a wrong step. Obviously there had to be economic or energy relations with Russia, but the dependence has proven excessive. And it was also not in line with Europe’s environmental priorities.

Q. What do you think for Europe if Trump wins the elections?

R. Whatever the outcome, we must respect American democracy. Furthermore, we already have the experience of dealing with a less friendly For the EU, it is not new. If we look at history, we will see that there is a cyclical and pendulous American isolationism. The United States did not enter the world wars in 1914 or 1939, it did so later because Congress considered that there were no harm to American interests that justified entry.

Q. Should Europe strengthen its own military voice and move away from US support?

R.I don’t identify with that language. Portugal is an Atlantic country that considers the relationship with the United Kingdom and the United States essential and wants an Atlantic Europe. Now, Europe must dedicate more effort to security and defense. Portugal is not in favor of a European army, but rather that we strengthen our military production, our defense industry and research, and that we have more military cooperation between states. We want the EU to be the European pillar of NATO. The defense of the European space must go through NATO.

The increase of Russian influence in the Sahel is crucial for Portugal and Spain. We have to see it as a threat and a risk

Q.Sao Tome and Principe, a former Portuguese colony, has just signed a military cooperation agreement with Russia. What can Portugal do to compensate for Russian influence in the Portuguese-speaking world of Africa?

R. The increase of Russian influence in the Sahel is crucial for Portugal and Spain. We have to see Russian influence, military or paramilitary, as a threat and a risk and we must raise NATO awareness of this. The agreement with Sao Tome and Principe is not yet known in its full extent, but we must respect its sovereignty as an independent state. The community of countries with the official Portuguese language is not a military alliance, but it is a space of intense cooperation. However, I want to remember that the Portuguese-speaking countries in Africa always had very strong relations with the Soviet Union and then with the Russian Federation, especially regarding military equipment. The agreement creates apprehensions at the moment, but it must be remembered that Sao Tome and Principe voted in favor of condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Q.In the elections in Europe, a rise of far-right parties and radical populism is expected. The president of the Commission Ursula Von der Leyen is in favor of reaching agreements with some of them. Can an agreement be reached with parties that do not believe in the European project?

R.It is unfair because I have never heard President Ursula von der Leyen say that we must agree with parties that do not respect human rights or liberal democracy. We can’t put them all in the same bag. On the Portuguese left there are deeply anti-European parties. The Communist Party wants us to leave the EU and the Left Bloc is against the euro. I am not going to compare them with agendas that go against liberal democracy and human rights, which must be clearly excluded. Whoever is in favor of Putin and the war of aggression must be excluded. I am in favor of stimulating dialogue between the central forces, but it is necessary that they themselves not become radicalized. What I see is that within them there are two or three national delegations that want to radicalize them a lot. I recommend that we have moderated speeches.

Q. But, what do you think about possible agreements with Giorgia Meloni’s formation?

R. One thing is Paulo Rangel until April 2 and another thing is Paulo Rangel as Minister of Foreign Affairs. You are not going to listen to my considerations about the internal politics of any country. The principles I stated are clear. Whoever says that I defend pacts with anti-European parties or against the rule of law is being unfair and contributing to the fake news, which do not only come from right-wing populism, there is also left-wing populism. Since I am the voice of the Portuguese State, I have to exercise restraint and prudence.

Q.In Portugal, the prime minister has refused to make an agreement with Chega, which clearly makes life more difficult for them. Was it a mistake to stick to no means no?

R. It was no mistake. What surprises me at this moment is that it is the Socialist Party that normalizes Chega. And also that Chega votes with the PS, which he considered the last of the horrors. The PS has to think twice if it wants to continue on this path in Parliament of voting alongside Chega every week.

Q. It is Chega who votes for the PS proposals.

R. It is clear that there is objective complicity, right? It is curious, because if it were the other way around and PSD were to propose an initiative and Chega to vote in favor, journalists would say that it is governing with Chega.

Q. A few months ago he participated in a demonstration against the amnesty law in Madrid and said that it was a case of “political opportunism.” Do you now regret that speech?

R. All politicians have a history and positions. From the moment they occupy a representation of the State, they do not lose their political opinions but they stop counting. I am an admirer of Spain and what the Popular Party and the PSOE did. I am very comfortable and I know that the Spanish Government is too. In the European Union we have the same concerns about security, defense and energy, where we are champions of renewable energy and we fight to be able to export our production through France. Spain and Portugal are also the biggest defenders of Mercosur, it is a shame that Europe does not understand this.

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