Jorge Rojas (65 years old, Santa Rosa de Cabal) is not only the Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs of Colombia. He is also one of the men closest to Gustavo Petro, whom he has accompanied like a faithful squire. In bad times, such as when the current President of the Republic was removed from his position as mayor of Bogotá, or in good times, as his ambassador to Belgium, Luxembourg and head of the Mission to the European Union and NATO.
Rojas agreed to an interview with Morning Express at the residence of the Colombian ambassador in Spain. Early in the morning, he arrived smiling and punctual to talk, among other topics, about the role that Colombia plays in the face of the political crisis in Venezuela, the National Government’s policy of “total peace” and the relationship of the European Union with Latin America and the Caribbean.
Ask. In an interview with Morning Express, María Corina Machado said that she did not feel that Colombia, Brazil and Mexico were involved in the situation in Venezuela. What do you think of these statements?
Answer.For mediation to take place, the parties involved must accept it, and so far this has not been requested. Colombia will not go beyond its position of facilitating dialogue for political peace in Venezuela.
P. Initially, the foreign ministries of these three countries had issued joint statements and had a unified position on the Venezuelan issue. But then Mexico split. What is the reason for this division?
R. Because in Mexico there is a government transition and President López Obrador will wait for the new president to take office on October 1st. [Claudia Sheinbaum] so that the so-called Group of Three can be resumed.
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P.When asked about Colombia’s position regarding Venezuela, the Mexican president said that President Petro is subject to “great internal pressures.” Is this pressure reflected in Colombia’s position?
R. Colombia has to be very cautious because [Venezuela] Colombia is a great neighbor, in the sense that we share not only history, but also a long border that exceeds 2,200 kilometers. It is a living border that has around 13 million people. Colombia has already tried to break relations and close the border. It is evident that the results [del cierre] were not those that were announced. The challenge is to demonstrate that dialogue, the opening of borders and the reopening of relations lead to political stability in the region.
P. What is the outcome of your meeting in Caracas with Venezuelan Foreign Minister Yván Gil last week?
R. Our visit to Venezuela is part of international relations. We have relations with the current government of Venezuela and that indicates that, at least until January 10, we will maintain a good relationship. Colombia has a policy of good neighborliness. We want to have good relations with all neighbors, regardless of the issues inherent to the political situation. The best thing that can happen to Latin America is for this to be resolved through a peaceful, democratic and institutional means.
P.Many of the criticisms have been directed at the National Electoral Council (CNE) or the Supreme Court of Justice of Venezuela. I understand the diplomatic relationship with the Executive, but does the Government of Colombia recognize the existence of institutions in Venezuela?
R. Obviously there is an institutionality. We recognize the existence of some powers, there is an electoral power. But at the same time we demand that the rules work. The CNE had to present the electoral gazette with the results on August 28. This has not happened. We have asked the Government and the Venezuelan State to publish this gazette. This did not happen. We want to look at the entire electoral process from a transparent perspective. We even suggested that they monitor it, but we have to understand that Venezuela is an autonomous country, it has its institutions, it exercises its sovereignty, its self-determination. Your first question was about mediation: it depends on what they ask of us. Colombia is ready, just as Venezuela has always been ready to support us in the peace process. We approach it with respect, but we want to find solutions. That there are guarantees for everyone, for those who exercise the Government and those who exercise the opposition. But, in addition, that this exercise is done without sanctions. [económicas]Sanctions have not worked either and have created a great difficulty for the Venezuelan people. So, without sanctions, with rights, with guarantees: a proposal for political peace that consolidates democracy in Venezuela.
P.With the suspension of the peace talks with the ELN, are we facing the failure of total peace?
R.All peace processes have ups and downs. We also had the same experience with the one that ended with the signing of the agreement with the FARC. We hope that negotiations will resume. The president has suspended the process because a process amidst bombs cannot be tolerated, and we are deeply hurt by the offensive launched by the ELN. But the president has also said: “give the signs that the country requires.” They will have to make a decision and we hope that the international community will support this effort by the Government. On the issue of peace, we always have one word: persistence. Persistence is not naivety, it is not patience with armed actions, it is an attitude that responds to the demand of the Colombian people for a peaceful solution in Colombia.
P. The President of the Republic has insisted that there is a coup d’état underway. What do you think of him? What do you expect from the international community in relation to these statements?
R.In Colombia there is a democracy. We have preserved it in the midst of all the difficulties and the armed conflict. To flout the internal rules that give constitutional immunity to the president begins to undermine the institutionality. And if there is an electoral body with a political origin that is trying to break that rule, to investigate the president and eventually sanction him, an environment begins to be generated that is not good for the country. Trying to violate the constitutional rules so that the president leaves the government is not only something that would be serious for democracy, but it is unprecedented. Colombia has significant democratic stability, so the president has warned about these attempts at what we would call a “soft coup.” But the government has also warned, based on information from friendly governments, that there is even an intention to physically eliminate the president.
When it comes to peace, we always have one word: persistence. And persistence is not naivety, it is not patience with armed actions.
Jorge Rojas, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs of Colombia
P.What is your assessment of Thursday’s mobilization in favor of pension reform? Why is the government putting so much emphasis on mobilization in the streets?
R. The mobilization was called by the labor unions. For many years, it was not seen that the unions came out to support a government, it was the other way around. And in general there is participation by young people, from social sectors that have not traditionally been involved in the exercise of government. For the president, the mobilization is part of a vital democracy, as occurs in Europe and Latin America. That is a good expression of democracy. But, ultimately, if there is no popular support for a government that must re-legitimize itself in the midst of so much pressure, then the government will be overthrown. So what there is here is a real struggle for power, but in terms of democracy and political action.
P. Colombia will assume the presidency of CELAC next year and its return to UNASUR was announced in December of last year. What expectations does the Ministry of Foreign Affairs have regarding the process of Latin American integration?
R.Integration is a mandate of the Colombian Constitution. And Colombia’s leadership is a good thing, as it has the presidency of at least 12 international mechanisms, one of them being CELAC. But we have also just taken over the Andean Community, the Brasilia Consensus, the Pacific Alliance and the Association of Caribbean States. In other words, Colombia is in an important leadership role that reaffirms its capacity to integrate the region.
P. What are your expectations of the CELAC-European Union summit? What is the importance and role of the European Union in relation to Latin America?
R. First, it reaffirms our strategic alliance between two continents that have great potential for the future and that we share values and principles of democracy, human rights and peace. For us, it is an important moment that 60 heads of state and government will go to Bogotá in October of next year and reaffirm our relationship between the two continents. Colombia’s vision is focused on the integration of Latin America and the Caribbean.
